From hugh at mimosa.com  Wed Mar 13 07:50:00 2024
From: hugh at mimosa.com (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Fri Mar 22 14:17:34 2024
Subject: [Alpine-info] what happened to ^W^X (delete rest of text)?
Message-ID: <5599b59e-56f1-2f68-8016-0e4f34868909@mimosa.com>

I'm using Alpine 2.26 from Fedora Linux's repo.

When composing a message, I used to be able to type ^W^X to delete from 
the current position to the end of the message.

I admit that the sequence was quite odd: how does ^W (Whereis) logically 
encompass "delete from here on"?  But I got used to that feature.

In a recent update, the feature disappeared (or became disabled).
Can I re-enable it?

Common sense says that ^^ (mark) and ^K (delete from mark to current 
position) is a better choice, but my fingers know ^W^X.

From bret at busby.net  Wed Mar 13 08:03:26 2024
From: bret at busby.net (Bret Busby)
Date: Fri Mar 22 14:17:34 2024
Subject: [Alpine-info] what happened to ^W^X (delete rest of text)?
In-Reply-To: <5599b59e-56f1-2f68-8016-0e4f34868909@mimosa.com>
References: <5599b59e-56f1-2f68-8016-0e4f34868909@mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <7940f26b-1065-cf28-08ec-80118732571e@busby.net>

On 13/3/24 22:50, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
> I'm using Alpine 2.26 from Fedora Linux's repo.
> 
> When composing a message, I used to be able to type ^W^X to delete from
> the current position to the end of the message.
> 
> I admit that the sequence was quite odd: how does ^W (Whereis) logically
> encompass "delete from here on"?  But I got used to that feature.
> 
> In a recent update, the feature disappeared (or became disabled).
> Can I re-enable it?
> 
> Common sense says that ^^ (mark) and ^K (delete from mark to current
> position) is a better choice, but my fingers know ^W^X.


I am not sure, but, from memory ^W means write (character) to the end of 
the line, and ^X is like <x> in vi; delete character; thence, the 
combination means delete each character to the end of the line.

That is my guesstimate...

I could be wrong...

....
Bret Busby
Armadale
Western Australia
(UTC+0800)
.................


From robin.listas at telefonica.net  Wed Mar 13 08:10:43 2024
From: robin.listas at telefonica.net (Carlos E. R.)
Date: Fri Mar 22 14:17:34 2024
Subject: [Alpine-info] what happened to ^W^X (delete rest of text)?
In-Reply-To: <5599b59e-56f1-2f68-8016-0e4f34868909@mimosa.com>
References: <5599b59e-56f1-2f68-8016-0e4f34868909@mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <19ec7d11-6359-18b9-1c88-36fa147f47e3@telefonica.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



El 2024-03-13 a las 10:50 -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier escribi?:

> I'm using Alpine 2.26 from Fedora Linux's repo.
>
> When composing a message, I used to be able to type ^W^X to delete from
> the current position to the end of the message.
>
> I admit that the sequence was quite odd: how does ^W (Whereis) logically
> encompass "delete from here on"?  But I got used to that feature.
>
> In a recent update, the feature disappeared (or became disabled).
> Can I re-enable it?
>
> Common sense says that ^^ (mark) and ^K (delete from mark to current
> position) is a better choice, but my fingers know ^W^X.

I didn't know about that combination, but I just tried it and it worked. 
Using openSUSE Leap 15.5, alpine-2.26-lp155.123.1.x86_64

Interesting, it deletes all except the signature. I might find this useful :-)


- -- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E. R.
        (from openSUSE 15.5 x86_64 at Telcontar)

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From r.wolf.conf at gmail.com  Thu Mar 14 04:59:03 2024
From: r.wolf.conf at gmail.com (Rob Wolfcon)
Date: Fri Mar 22 14:17:34 2024
Subject: [Alpine-info] what happened to ^W^X (delete rest of text)?
In-Reply-To: <po5q278q-2112-0447-rp93-so450o75672n@tznvy.pbz>
References: <5599b59e-56f1-2f68-8016-0e4f34868909@mimosa.com>
	<19ec7d11-6359-18b9-1c88-36fa147f47e3@telefonica.net>
	<po5q278q-2112-0447-rp93-so450o75672n@tznvy.pbz>
Message-ID: <CADHZcK9sgU4OEd4uc-MJp27gxd=hmpTxPKPkZStUg4ojUiuOxA@mail.gmail.com>

(once more sending, this time to mailing list for all, not only for Carlos :-) )

On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> > I'm using Alpine 2.26 from Fedora Linux's repo.
> >
> > When composing a message, I used to be able to type ^W^X to delete from
> > the current position to the end of the message.
> >
> > I admit that the sequence was quite odd: how does ^W (Whereis) logically
> > encompass "delete from here on"?  But I got used to that feature.
> >
> > In a recent update, the feature disappeared (or became disabled).
> > Can I re-enable it?
> >
> > Common sense says that ^^ (mark) and ^K (delete from mark to current
> > position) is a better choice, but my fingers know ^W^X.
>
> Interesting, it deletes all except the signature. I might find this useful :-)


Hello,

this is a patch

https://alpineapp.email/alpine/info/DelText.html

It's included in patched version https://alpineapp.email/alpine/info/all.html
or you can apply this patch yourself.

And yes, it deletes the text to the end or to the signature begin :-) (as
described on the patch page).

Regards,

Robert.

From robin.listas at telefonica.net  Thu Mar 14 06:14:52 2024
From: robin.listas at telefonica.net (Carlos E. R.)
Date: Fri Mar 22 14:17:34 2024
Subject: [Alpine-info] what happened to ^W^X (delete rest of text)?
In-Reply-To: <CADHZcK9sgU4OEd4uc-MJp27gxd=hmpTxPKPkZStUg4ojUiuOxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5599b59e-56f1-2f68-8016-0e4f34868909@mimosa.com>
	<19ec7d11-6359-18b9-1c88-36fa147f47e3@telefonica.net>
	<po5q278q-2112-0447-rp93-so450o75672n@tznvy.pbz>
	<CADHZcK9sgU4OEd4uc-MJp27gxd=hmpTxPKPkZStUg4ojUiuOxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f84ff8b2-99d3-4d2f-a9d2-d6de9149e6d9@telefonica.net>

On 2024-03-14 12:59, Rob Wolfcon wrote:
> (once more sending, this time to mailing list for all, not only for Carlos :-) )

:-)

> 
> On Wed, 13 Mar 2024, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
>>> I'm using Alpine 2.26 from Fedora Linux's repo.
>>>
>>> When composing a message, I used to be able to type ^W^X to delete from
>>> the current position to the end of the message.
>>>
>>> I admit that the sequence was quite odd: how does ^W (Whereis) logically
>>> encompass "delete from here on"?  But I got used to that feature.
>>>
>>> In a recent update, the feature disappeared (or became disabled).
>>> Can I re-enable it?
>>>
>>> Common sense says that ^^ (mark) and ^K (delete from mark to current
>>> position) is a better choice, but my fingers know ^W^X.
>>
>> Interesting, it deletes all except the signature. I might find this useful :-)
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> this is a patch
> 
> https://alpineapp.email/alpine/info/DelText.html
> 
> It's included in patched version https://alpineapp.email/alpine/info/all.html
> or you can apply this patch yourself.
> 
> And yes, it deletes the text to the end or to the signature begin :-) (as
> described on the patch page).

Ah, then it is that the distribution changed criteria. First they 
published with the patch, then without.

Maybe D. Hugh can report a bug.

-- 
Cheers / Saludos,

		Carlos E. R.
		(from 15.5 x86_64 at Telcontar)

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From hugh at mimosa.com  Fri Mar 15 09:15:14 2024
From: hugh at mimosa.com (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Fri Mar 22 14:17:34 2024
Subject: [Alpine-info] what happened to ^W^X (delete rest of text)?
In-Reply-To: <f84ff8b2-99d3-4d2f-a9d2-d6de9149e6d9@telefonica.net>
References: <5599b59e-56f1-2f68-8016-0e4f34868909@mimosa.com>
	<19ec7d11-6359-18b9-1c88-36fa147f47e3@telefonica.net>
	<po5q278q-2112-0447-rp93-so450o75672n@tznvy.pbz>
	<CADHZcK9sgU4OEd4uc-MJp27gxd=hmpTxPKPkZStUg4ojUiuOxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<f84ff8b2-99d3-4d2f-a9d2-d6de9149e6d9@telefonica.net>
Message-ID: <cf885922-41fc-dbc7-e182-879233bf1dc1@mimosa.com>

| From: Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net>

| Ah, then it is that the distribution changed criteria. First
| they published with the patch, then without.
| 
| Maybe D. Hugh can report a bug.


One step further along this path:

- Fedora 38's Alpine has ^W^X
- Fedora 39's Alpine does not have it

Here's the changelog from Fedora 39.  Newest to oldest.  I stopped when 
the changes were also in the Fedora 38 changelog.

================

$ rpm -q --changelog alpine
* Wed Jul 19 2023 Fedora Release Engineering <releng@fedoraproject.org> - 2.26-6
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_39_Mass_Rebuild

* Fri May 05 2023 Steve Traylen <steve.traylen@cern.ch> - 2.26-5
- Switch to SPDX License field
- Switch to new alineapp.email upstream (rhbz#2187297)
- Build with one CPU thread
- Use modern patch macros

* Wed Jan 18 2023 Fedora Release Engineering <releng@fedoraproject.org> - 2.26-4
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_38_Mass_Rebuild

================

This changelog refers to bugzilla entry
<https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2187297>

Is this change reasonable?  I'm also looking at
<https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/alpine/pull-request/2#request_diff>

From brian at buddy-baker.us  Fri Mar 22 17:24:45 2024
From: brian at buddy-baker.us (Brian S. Baker [VIA BBUS])
Date: Fri Mar 22 17:24:51 2024
Subject: [Alpine-info] ALPINE: [O365] Email Setup:  Seems to be difficult
Message-ID: <PH0PR16MB5205171B05FD3DE5E0AC805A98312@PH0PR16MB5205.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>

I just wanted to post to the list to ask if there is any way to make it easier to set up alpine using office365 Email.  When I follow the instructions
from:  https://alpineapp.email/alpine/alpine-info/misc/SettingXOAUTH2Outlook.html I end up getting either an error, and I have to go to azure and mess around with codes and tokens, or I get a login screen that says to login, and it gives me a place to sign in and when I do I get the screen that tells me that I will be giving alpine permission to do [insert permissions that it says here] and I click OK.

Then it tells me that alpine is logged in, and I can close the browser.  when I return to Alpine, I get the indication that I have a collection for Office 365 email, but when I go to "INBOX" there is NOTHING there. (Just a BLACK Screen, and it appears I am connected to my inbox, but can't see any mail in it.)

Can someone Please tell me how to set this up so that it will work.  I get the impression that Office 365 and Gmail believe that Alpine is apparently Unsafe, and gmail has blocked it, but in all my years of using PINE (3.89, 3.90, 3.91, 3.95, 3.96, and then Alpine 2.0, 2.23, 2.24) I have NEVER found it so difficult to set up IMAP Mail from either host.

I have over 30 years of experience doing stuff on the internet, and providing computer tech support, helping those that need help with setup, and maintenance of PC's.  From 1993-2007, and from 2007-2018, I was a user and volunteer at Tallahassee Freenet, and used PINE for years:  I was also a member of our Questions and Problems Aliases, and wrote helpfiles for our system.  I messed around with PINE, and was asked to write a helpfile for PINE, and that is how I became a member of TFN's Staff, and in 2007, was managing webpages for the site.  I now own buddy hyphen baker DOT com, DOT us, DOT ORG, DOT info as well as bbus.info - All because I had a dream that one day I would OWN my own domains, and my own server, inspired by my work with Tallahassee Freenet!

I don't know if I am doing something wrong, but with all the POWER that you have in your hand, ALPINE, like its Sisters PICO and PINE have really come a long way, and it would be a SHAME if I could NOT use PINE from my shell:  I do not run mail servers on my Linux machine, but I could do what I wanted to (accessing the mailservers through IMAP and ALPINE, before Microsoft was chosen by Godaddy to take care of the email for us.

Can anyone assist me with this:  It seems that people may think PINE and ALPINE are older technology, and they don't support anyone running their own machines.  It would be NICE to be able to login to my terminal and command "alpine" and be able to see my email on my linux server.

Thanks,

Brian
XOAUTH2 Configuration<https://alpineapp.email/alpine/alpine-info/misc/SettingXOAUTH2Outlook.html>
Information about XOAUTH2 configuration
alpineapp.email


BRIAN S. BAKER, A.S., B.S.
HAVE A NICE DAY
ADMINISTRATOR/WEBMASTER/LINUX ENTHUSIAST
COMPUTER CONSULTANT AT LARGE/ "THE WIZKID"

=======================WEB SITES========================
|https://buddy-baker.us | https://buddy-baker.com | https://buddy-baker.org|
========================================================

==============EMAIL==================
  brian@buddy-baker.us | root@buddy-baker.us
=====================================


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From hugh at mimosa.com  Sun Mar 24 12:25:18 2024
From: hugh at mimosa.com (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Sun Mar 24 12:25:23 2024
Subject: [Alpine-info] what happened to ^W^X (delete rest of text)?
In-Reply-To: <f84ff8b2-99d3-4d2f-a9d2-d6de9149e6d9@telefonica.net>
References: <5599b59e-56f1-2f68-8016-0e4f34868909@mimosa.com>
	<19ec7d11-6359-18b9-1c88-36fa147f47e3@telefonica.net>
	<po5q278q-2112-0447-rp93-so450o75672n@tznvy.pbz>
	<CADHZcK9sgU4OEd4uc-MJp27gxd=hmpTxPKPkZStUg4ojUiuOxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<f84ff8b2-99d3-4d2f-a9d2-d6de9149e6d9@telefonica.net>
Message-ID: <5a1184e0-5213-221e-1e10-0207f4cb270d@mimosa.com>

This is about a change to the alpine package in the Fedora Linux distro.

| From: Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net>
| 
| Ah, then it is that the distribution changed criteria. First they published
| with the patch, then without.
| 
| Maybe D. Hugh can report a bug.

The Fedora package switched their upstream.  See 
 <https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2187297>

It used to be
 <http://alpine.x10host.com/alpine/patches/alpine-%{version}/alpine-%{version}.tar.xz>
but that disappeared so they switched to 
 <https://alpineapp.email/alpine/release/src/alpine-2.26.tar.xz>

The former one contained Eduardo Chappa's patches and the new one does 
not.

If they use
 <https://alpineapp.email/alpine/patches/alpine-2.25/alpine-2.25.tar.xz>
They would get a patched version.

Which should be used?  Is there a reason not to use the patched version?

- the patched version is 2.25 whereas the unpatched version is 2.26

+ the source is the same repo and thus likely as trustworthy

From r.wolf.conf at gmail.com  Mon Mar 25 02:39:26 2024
From: r.wolf.conf at gmail.com (Robert Wolf)
Date: Mon Mar 25 02:39:57 2024
Subject: [Alpine-info] what happened to ^W^X (delete rest of text)?
In-Reply-To: <5a1184e0-5213-221e-1e10-0207f4cb270d@mimosa.com>
References: <5599b59e-56f1-2f68-8016-0e4f34868909@mimosa.com>
	<19ec7d11-6359-18b9-1c88-36fa147f47e3@telefonica.net>
	<po5q278q-2112-0447-rp93-so450o75672n@tznvy.pbz>
	<CADHZcK9sgU4OEd4uc-MJp27gxd=hmpTxPKPkZStUg4ojUiuOxA@mail.gmail.com>
	<f84ff8b2-99d3-4d2f-a9d2-d6de9149e6d9@telefonica.net>
	<5a1184e0-5213-221e-1e10-0207f4cb270d@mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <34185059-n916-4pr2-086o-13q4701o0no6@tznvy.pbz>



Hello,

I wanted to answer, but every email with URL to alpine app is rejected with the 
following message.

--------------------------------------------------
Reporting-MTA: dns; googlemail.com
Received-From-MTA: dns; r.wolf.conf@gmail.com
Arrival-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 00:07:17 -0700 (PDT)
X-Original-Message-ID: <np361858-1ssn-45o3-q946-rpsro4069sq8@tznvy.pbz>

Final-Recipient: rfc822; alpine-info@u.washington.edu
Action: failed
Status: 5.7.0
Remote-MTA: dns; mxb-00641c01.gslb.pphosted.com. (205.220.165.146, the server for the domain u.washington.edu.)
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 5.7.0 Message not accepted as it appears to be spam (IS)
Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 00:07:20 -0700 (PDT)
--------------------------------------------------

I am not sure, if anyone can update this server to accept my emails with the
alpine app links.

I just wanted to write, there is a version 2.26 on the server, just replace
the 2.25 with 2.26 in the link to patched 2.25.

Eduardo has maybe forgotten to update the text.

Regards,

Robert.
From andrew at aitchison.me.uk  Tue Mar 26 07:53:58 2024
From: andrew at aitchison.me.uk (Andrew C Aitchison)
Date: Tue Mar 26 07:54:06 2024
Subject: [Alpine-info] Draft RFC for Handling Misdirected Emails
Message-ID: <1c2b31b4-1791-81d7-bca6-8706ed64187c@aitchison.me.uk>


I have just come across
   https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dweekly-wrong-recipient/
Adding a Wrong Recipient URL for Handling Misdirected Emails

Interestingly section 6.2 says
    When a mail client receives an email that includes a Wrong-Recipient
    header field, an option SHOULD be exposed in the user interface that
    allows a recipient to indicate that the mail was intended for another
    user, if and only if the email is reasonably assured to not be spam.
and section 11 says
    MUAs ought only expose this Wrong Recipient option [to the user]
    if relatively confident that the email is not spam.

... So this RFC is intended for transactional messages
... which I think means that there is not a strong need for Alpine
to include a Wrong-Recipient header ?

Like List-Unsubscribe, the MUA receives an HTTPS POST
or a mail-to: URI to contact the sending server.

Anyone interested in adding a "this is not me" key sequence to Alpine ?

-- 
Andrew C. Aitchison                      Kendal, UK
                    andrew@aitchison.me.uk
From andrew at aitchison.me.uk  Tue Mar 26 13:06:41 2024
From: andrew at aitchison.me.uk (Andrew C Aitchison)
Date: Tue Mar 26 13:07:10 2024
Subject: [Alpine-info] ALPINE: [O365] Email Setup: Seems to be difficult
In-Reply-To: <PH0PR16MB5205171B05FD3DE5E0AC805A98312@PH0PR16MB5205.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
References: <PH0PR16MB5205171B05FD3DE5E0AC805A98312@PH0PR16MB5205.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <8eafcb4f-d586-3d72-7304-cd7de1b1fed8@aitchison.me.uk>


Brian,

We share your frustration.

Sadly Google and Microsoft do not really wish to provide an IMAP service
- I don't think that Microsoft even provide an IMAP client for Windows any more.

Documenting how to set up either of the Microsoft mail services* is a
tedious and substantial piece of trial and error and our experience is
that it changes more frequently than we would like to repeat it.
Plus any existing settings - probably including some stored in the
web-browser - are likely to make the result different from a truly fresh
setup.

* Microsoft have two mail service with barely distinguishable names,
but if you ask their support for help for the wrong one there will
send you to the other one ...

Alpine follows the OAUTH2/XOAUTH2/OAUTHBEARER standards,
but they don't cover the whole process of getting and using tokens
to use Microsoft or Google (mail) services.

As a user, I avoid it by getting Gmail to forward my messages to
a sane email service and collect it from there.

Oh, IMAP is not insecure, but MS & G want you to use the same
authentication for all their services, ideally through a web-browser
and having two systems does present a bigger target,
especially if one is only used by a small number of people.
Given the effort they put into IMAP, they are probably correct
that using IMAP *to connect to their mail services* is less safe
than using their preferred connections.

I am sorry that I cannot give you more optimistic news.

On Sat, 23 Mar 2024, Brian S. Baker [VIA BBUS] wrote:

> I just wanted to post to the list to ask if there is any way to make
> it easier to set up alpine using office365 Email.  When I follow the
> instructions from:
> https://alpineapp.email/alpine/alpine-info/misc/SettingXOAUTH2Outlook.html
> I end up getting either an error, and I have to go to azure and mess
> around with codes and tokens, or I get a login screen that says to
> login, and it gives me a place to sign in and when I do I get the
> screen that tells me that I will be giving alpine permission to do
> [insert permissions that it says here] and I click OK.
>
> Then it tells me that alpine is logged in, and I can close the
> browser.  when I return to Alpine, I get the indication that I have
> a collection for Office 365 email, but when I go to "INBOX" there is
> NOTHING there. (Just a BLACK Screen, and it appears I am connected
> to my inbox, but can't see any mail in it.)
>
> Can someone Please tell me how to set this up so that it will work.
> I get the impression that Office 365 and Gmail believe that Alpine
> is apparently Unsafe, and gmail has blocked it, but in all my years
> of using PINE (3.89, 3.90, 3.91, 3.95, 3.96, and then Alpine 2.0,
> 2.23, 2.24) I have NEVER found it so difficult to set up IMAP Mail
> from either host.
>
> I have over 30 years of experience doing stuff on the internet, and
> providing computer tech support, helping those that need help with
> setup, and maintenance of PC's.  From 1993-2007, and from 2007-2018,
> I was a user and volunteer at Tallahassee Freenet, and used PINE for
> years: I was also a member of our Questions and Problems Aliases,
> and wrote helpfiles for our system.  I messed around with PINE, and
> was asked to write a helpfile for PINE, and that is how I became a
> member of TFN's Staff, and in 2007, was managing webpages for the
> site.  I now own buddy hyphen baker DOT com, DOT us, DOT ORG, DOT
> info as well as bbus.info - All because I had a dream that one day I
> would OWN my own domains, and my own server, inspired by my work
> with Tallahassee Freenet!
>
> I don't know if I am doing something wrong, but with all the POWER
> that you have in your hand, ALPINE, like its Sisters PICO and PINE
> have really come a long way, and it would be a SHAME if I could NOT
> use PINE from my shell: I do not run mail servers on my Linux
> machine, but I could do what I wanted to (accessing the mailservers
> through IMAP and ALPINE, before Microsoft was chosen by Godaddy to
> take care of the email for us.
>
> Can anyone assist me with this: It seems that people may think PINE
> and ALPINE are older technology, and they don't support anyone
> running their own machines.  It would be NICE to be able to login to
> my terminal and command "alpine" and be able to see my email on my
> linux server.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian
> XOAUTH2 Configuration<https://alpineapp.email/alpine/alpine-info/misc/SettingXOAUTH2Outlook.html>
> Information about XOAUTH2 configuration
> alpineapp.email
-- 
Andrew C. Aitchison                      Kendal, UK
                    andrew@aitchison.me.uk
From robin.listas at telefonica.net  Tue Mar 26 13:52:01 2024
From: robin.listas at telefonica.net (Carlos E. R.)
Date: Tue Mar 26 13:52:06 2024
Subject: [Alpine-info] ALPINE: [O365] Email Setup: Seems to be difficult
In-Reply-To: <8eafcb4f-d586-3d72-7304-cd7de1b1fed8@aitchison.me.uk>
References: <PH0PR16MB5205171B05FD3DE5E0AC805A98312@PH0PR16MB5205.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
	<8eafcb4f-d586-3d72-7304-cd7de1b1fed8@aitchison.me.uk>
Message-ID: <59fe50f0-35b8-4851-a7b2-f5a18743beb0@telefonica.net>

On 2024-03-26 21:06, Andrew C Aitchison wrote:
> 
> Brian,
> 
> We share your frustration.
> 
> Sadly Google and Microsoft do not really wish to provide an IMAP service
> - I don't think that Microsoft even provide an IMAP client for Windows 
> any more.
> 
> Documenting how to set up either of the Microsoft mail services* is a
> tedious and substantial piece of trial and error and our experience is
> that it changes more frequently than we would like to repeat it.
> Plus any existing settings - probably including some stored in the
> web-browser - are likely to make the result different from a truly fresh
> setup.
> 
> * Microsoft have two mail service with barely distinguishable names,
> but if you ask their support for help for the wrong one there will
> send you to the other one ...
> 
> Alpine follows the OAUTH2/XOAUTH2/OAUTHBEARER standards,
> but they don't cover the whole process of getting and using tokens
> to use Microsoft or Google (mail) services.
> 
> As a user, I avoid it by getting Gmail to forward my messages to
> a sane email service and collect it from there.
> 
> Oh, IMAP is not insecure, but MS & G want you to use the same
> authentication for all their services, ideally through a web-browser
> and having two systems does present a bigger target,
> especially if one is only used by a small number of people.
> Given the effort they put into IMAP, they are probably correct
> that using IMAP *to connect to their mail services* is less safe
> than using their preferred connections.
> 
> I am sorry that I cannot give you more optimistic news.

With gmail there is another method which is what I do: set up an 
application password. Using that, it is plain imap, login and password 
for Alpine.

         "imap Ggl" {imap.gmail.com/ssl/user=...@gmail.com}INBOX,


-- 
Cheers / Saludos,

		Carlos E. R.
		(from 15.5 x86_64 at Telcontar)

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From alpine.chappa at yandex.com  Tue Mar 26 18:43:49 2024
From: alpine.chappa at yandex.com (Eduardo Chappa)
Date: Tue Mar 26 18:44:01 2024
Subject: [Alpine-info] ALPINE: [O365] Email Setup: Seems to be difficult
In-Reply-To: <PH0PR16MB5205171B05FD3DE5E0AC805A98312@PH0PR16MB5205.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
References: <PH0PR16MB5205171B05FD3DE5E0AC805A98312@PH0PR16MB5205.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <63a2dbf4-049d-b30f-ad76-505e70d94e54@yandex.com>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2024, Brian S. Baker [VIA BBUS] wrote:

> I just wanted to post to the list to ask if there is any way to make it
> easier to set up alpine using office365 Email.? When I follow the
> instructions?
> from:?https://alpineapp.email/alpine/alpine-info/misc/SettingXOAUTH2Outlook.html
> ?I end up getting either an error,

What error do you get? If the error is that the connection to localhost 
failed, the screen in Alpine tells you to enter the full url to alpine as 
the code.

If this is not the error, then I cannot guess it with the limited 
information you provided, so please provide useful information such as 
error messages.

> and I have to go to azure and mess around with codes and tokens, or I 
> get a login screen that says to login, and it gives me a place to sign 
> in and when I do I get the screen that tells me that I will be giving 
> alpine permission?to do [insert permissions that it says here] and I 
> click OK.
> 
> Then it tells me that alpine is logged in, and I can close the browser.? 
> when I return to Alpine, I get the indication that I have a collection 
> for Office 365 email, but when I go to "INBOX" there is NOTHING there. 
> (Just a BLACK Screen, and it appears I am connected?to my inbox, but 
> can't see any mail in it.)

That does not sound like an error in Alpine, but again, I cannot tell 
exactly because I do not know how you configured alpine. To learn more 
about the error look at the debug. Once you see an empty inbox press M J D 
9, to set up the debug level to 9 and look for the lines that say "IMAP 
DEBUG". They will tell you what conversation Alpine had with the server.

I use Alpine every day with IMAP, I can use it with Google and Microsoft 
using XOAUTH2. I know it works, and so do many people that I have helped 
to set it up. If you want to contact me offline to debug your issue 
further, go ahead.

-- 
Eduardo