[Tweeters] Townsend's vs. Hermit vs. hybrid warblers by song

[Robert O'Brien]

So, one question that arises from this interesting discussion, is why are
they separate species?  Consider Audubon's/Myrtle Warbler.
Perhaps just because no one has gotten around to lumping them?  Has any DNA
work been done?  Not that it would be necessary.
Bob OBrien  Portland

On Mon, May 22, 2023 at 3:05 PM Steve Hampton <stevechampton at gmail.com>
wrote:


> Agreed. Nearly all the warblers at Mt Walker in Jefferson County are

> Townsend's or hybrids. Pure Hermit is rare and would need good pics to

> demonstrate. Merlin sound identification commonly calls Townsend's,

> hybrids, and even Black-thr Gray as "Hermit Warbler." It's definitely an

> area where visual confirmation is needed.

>

>

>

> On Mon, May 22, 2023 at 11:23 AM Michael Hobbs <birdmarymoor at gmail.com>

> wrote:

>

>> In my experience, in the portion of Washington that has Townsend's,

>> Hermit, and hybrids, they will all sing and respond to any variation of

>> their collective songs.  If you play a typical Townsend's song at a Hermit

>> that was singing a typical Hermit song, the Hermit Warbler will come in and

>> sing a Townsend's song back at you.  And vice versa.  Black-throated Grays

>> will also get into the mix, singing songs closer to Townsend's/Hermit in

>> the Hermit zone.

>>

>> So I would never try to use voice to distinguish TOWA, HEWA, and TOxHE in

>> the Hermit Warbler range in Washington.

>>

>> = Michael Hobbs

>>

>> On Mon, May 22, 2023 at 9:41 AM Jason Zolle <zollejd at gmail.com> wrote:

>>

>>> Hi tweets,

>>>

>>> I am wondering if anyone is aware of any resources or has any useful

>>> information they can share related to distinguishing Townsend's and Hermit

>>> Warblers by song (1) from each other and (2) from hybrids.

>>>

>>> To the first, I have read the relevant sections of The Warbler Guide,

>>> looked at many sonograms, listened to numerous recordings, and while I feel

>>> like I have a handle on identifying some songs by ear, I still am not

>>> nearly as comfortable as I would like here, and would love some suggestions

>>> to improve.

>>>

>>> To the second, we birded Saturday north of Packwood in an apparent

>>> hybrid area and the majority of TOWA/HEWA songs we heard had me throwing up

>>> my hands in confusion.  I suspect that may have been because many were

>>> abnormal songs of hybrids -- of the 8 birds we called in for visual

>>> identification, 4 were phenotypically pure Townsend's and 4 were hybrids (3

>>> of those 4 being almost pure Hermit).  I found a 1995 British Columbia

>>> birding article online that cites a 1983 article (which I cannot find) to

>>> the effect of "hybrids in Oregon sing like Hermit Warblers, and hybrids in

>>> Washington sing like Townsend's Warblers."  That seems a bit simplistic and

>>> I am hoping to get more information if possible on what to listen for (or

>>> look for in a spectogram) so I can more confidently identify these birds by

>>> ear without feeling the need to call each one in for a visual inspection.

>>> I also am wondering if anyone knows whether pure Townsend's sing abnormal

>>> songs in a hybrid zone, perhaps because they are learning from their dad's

>>> hybrid neighbors.

>>>

>>> I have thought that Merlin sound ID, which of course isn't perfect but

>>> often does a good job at seeing things in spectograms that are not readily

>>> apparent to the ear, would have been helpful in this task, but particularly

>>> in the hybrid zone it seemed to be equally confused, often showing both

>>> Hermit and Townsend's simultaneously or switching between the two.  (And if

>>> it did show one bird only, that bird was almost always Hermit, which was a

>>> bummer because not a single bird we saw visually appeared as a pure

>>> Hermit).  This leads me to think that maybe the songs do have elements of

>>> both that the AI is picking up on.  I just would love to know exactly what

>>> it is seeing in the spectograms to make the call.

>>>

>>> Thank you!

>>> Jason

>>> Olympia, WA

>>>

>>>

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> Tweeters mailing list

>>> Tweeters at u.washington.edu

>>> http://mailman11.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/tweeters

>>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> Tweeters mailing list

>> Tweeters at u.washington.edu

>> http://mailman11.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/tweeters

>>

>

>

> --

> ​Steve Hampton​

> Port Townsend, WA  (qatáy)

>

>

> _______________________________________________

> Tweeters mailing list

> Tweeters at u.washington.edu

> http://mailman11.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/tweeters

>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman11.u.washington.edu/pipermail/tweeters/attachments/20230523/83ae9c5e/attachment.html>