[Alpine-info] PINERC file for accessing Gmail

[Damion Yates]

On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 at 23:22, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. <n1ea at arrl.net> wrote:


> Does anyone have such a file that downloads email directly from the gmail

> IMAP server?

>


I use offlineimap.py which syncs a Maildir compatible hierarchy to my home
directory which alpine can read from.

I have a feeling that unfortunately this and Alpine (and one would assume
Mutt), all need a brief moment in a browser to sort the *once off* approval
of the xoauth2 token before things can carry on.  At least that was as I
understood it, the change to the localhost kludge Eduardo nicely
implemented recently, might be able to do a lot of this transparently
without needing a browser for a moment.

I use a mix of direct IMAP (xoauth2) and Maildir (offlineimap doing
xoauth2, alpine doing Maildir).  Some IMAP functions are a smidge
latency/laggy, others are way faster even than my local SSD can handle for
Maildir.




> This is what some of us used to have:

>

> # List of SMTP servers for sending mail. If blank: Unix Alpine uses

> sendmail.

> smtp-server=smtp.gmail.com/ssl/user=MYUSERNAME at gmail.com

>

> # Path of (local or remote) INBOX, e.g. ={mail.somewhere.edu}inbox

> # Normal Unix default is the local INBOX (usually /usr/spool/mail/$USER).

> inbox-path={imap.gmail.com/ssl/user=MYUSERNAME at gmail.com}INBOX

> <http://imap.gmail.com/ssl/user=MYUSERNAME@gmail.com%7DINBOX>

>

> One problem is that gmail has changed things, all mail doesn't go to INBOX

> anymore, but you need to switch to ALL MAIL folder.

>


This is odd.  I assumed the only emails not in INBOX were what you'd
deleted (does an archive in gmail depending on your config), or spam.  The
other option is somebody has added filters, moving emails into labels
(account hacked?).  I guess another option is that Google have implemented
some weird new features auto-separating things like
promotions/social/commercial, using machine learning!?  I've not seen this
and I use gmail all the time!

The IMAP settings allow for a lot of things, which folders are exposed over
IMAP, only showing the last 1000 messages, what does "Delete" mean, does it
auto archive, actually delete, does it expunge on its own?  These do need
you to use the UI for a bit, but only once.



> Most of the blind users have migrated to the less useful mutt program,

> Some are trying the new aerc email program.

>


Mutt with GMails imap should be strictly inferior to Alpine with GMails
imap IMO (I work with people using both).  The problems you've mentioned
aren't client specific but IMAP implementation and personal
configuration specific on gmail.



> Alpine has gone from the easiest email program for the blind to one that

> is more difficult - but Google / GMAIL shares some of the blame for now

> allowing regular passwords and now requiring application specific passwords.

>

> Is there any method of configuring Alpine for multiple mail addresses?

> Many of the blind users have gone over to gmx.com because of the problems

> with gmail and application specific passwords.

>

> Most of these people cannot navigate a graphical interface.  If you've

> tried it with your eyes shut, you know what I'm taking about.

>


I wish I had a better answer.  I know blind users who do use the browser
UIs, those screen readers have complex <div> searching heuristics and/or
many pages have newer standardised hints for those.

But also a lot of this just needs help once by somebody who can quickly
configure stuff so the user can return to the cmdline.

As a UNIX veteran of many decades I spend almost my entire time in an XTerm
in screen using alpine, so I do appreciate and have also observed the world
getting harder to continue purely from the cmdline.   I used to argue for
cmdline alternatives for GUI/web systems people developed, and often cited
the blind - hoping accessibility would help my nerdy cause (I have sight
but just love the cmdline).  However I was led to believe that modern
screen readers are actually quite superior with intentional hinted UIs
these days.  It's interesting to hear otherwise.


LMK if my non top-posting (which is usually preferred on this list), is
actually a hindrance for you or the blind users.

 - Damion





> On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 3:06 PM D.J.J. Ring, Jr. <n1ea at arrl.net> wrote:

>

>> I'm not using Gsuit, I'm just a regular user who attempts to help blind

>> users have a simple way to access their email.

>>

>> It's frustrating getting people to appreciate how difficult it is for

>> most blind computer users to use the Graphical User Interface. Also speech

>> dispatcher under the command line text interface is flawlessly excellent,

>> and being keyboard command driven, it's a wonderful match for blind users.

>>

>> I have tried in the past to get the developer of the excellent lynx

>> command Internet browser to include in his release an alternative lynx.cfg

>> confusion file which eliminates the constant need to override objections of

>> lynx to access websites. I cannot say that he is unaware of blind users

>> difficulties, but I can say that he probably is unaware of just how

>> difficult and impossible for nearly all blind users - the ones not trained

>> in computers to read lynx.cfg which is over 153k in size with a screen

>> reader that speaks to you and often reads what in the file are strings as

>> "words" which the blind user has to scroll through letter by letter using

>> his cursor keys.

>>

>> I've asked the developer of Alpine to provide a version of Alpine that

>> has none of the added security and need for a password for alpine itself,

>> and he has generously provided me with instructions on how to remove this

>> need for a password, but it must be done on each users installation of

>> Alpine.

>>

>> Frankly, and without judgement in any negative way, most blind users are

>> unable to follow these clear but multiple step instructions.

>>

>> Back to a pinerc file that blind users can use to access Gmail and

>> download their email.

>>

>> The file we are using now only shows the INBOX, and one user I am helping

>> has 10,000 emails in "ALL MAIL".

>>

>> Any and all help would be appreciated.

>>

>> Years ago we had such a file that worked and showed all the folders and

>> it was hosted on the now defunct but excellent Vinux  based on Ubuntu for

>> the blind website.  It seems no one has a copy of that pinerc file.

>>

>> Thanks,

>>

>> David

>>

>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2023, 15:35 Lucio Chiappetti <lucio at lambrate.inaf.it>

>> wrote:

>>

>>> On Sat, 14 Jan 2023, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote:

>>>

>>> > Does anyone have an example of a .pinerc file that can directly

>>> download

>>> > imap mail from Gmail using an application specific password?

>>>

>>> I use these two for my institutional account managed by Gsuite (so

>>> domain

>>> in name at domain is NOT gmail.com)

>>>

>>> The first entry is one incoming folder. It sees the content of the

>>> Gsuite

>>> INBOX (and only that) for the 5 minutes when an incoming message stays

>>> there.

>>>

>>> My default arrangement is to move all valid mail locally to my machine

>>> with a crontab-operated fetchmail every 5 min

>>>

>>> The second is a folder collection. I use it to access any other Gsuite

>>> folder but inbox. Since I do not keep any serious message on gmail for

>>> more than 24 hours, this is used: (a) to check the Spam folder; (b) to

>>> expunge the Bin folder, where message retrieved by fetchmail are

>>> temporarily "deleted"

>>>

>>> Gsuite

>>> {imap.gmail.com:993/ssl/novalidate-cert/notls/user=name at domain}

>>>

>>> "All Gsuite"

>>> {imap.gmail.com:993/ssl/notls/user=name at domain}[[Gmail]]/[]

>>> <http://imap.gmail.com:993/ssl/notls/user=name@domain%7D%5B%5BGmail%5D%5D/%5B%5D>

>>>

>>>

>>> details on my useage of fetchmail are in here

>>> http://sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/WWW/WhereManWins/gs.html

>>>

>>> --

>>> Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Corti 12 - I-20133 Milano (Italy)

>>> For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html

>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>> A middle rank researcher at end career is not rich but is in the top 5%

>>> of the Italian income tax taxpayers. Does it not sound strange ?

>>>

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> Alpine-info mailing list

>>> Alpine-info at u.washington.edu

>>> http://mailman12.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-info

>>>

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